Posts by Half banana

8

Disconfirmed expectations

by Doug Mason in

the person may have prepared himself psychologically for an event that never eventuates, and, worse still, may have even made public his predictions about the event.

what happens when an important prophecy fails and dissonance is aroused between what was predicted and what actually occurred is described in the classic field study carried out by festinger, riecken and schachter (1956).

in the mid-1950s mrs marion keech, a suburban housewife, began to receive messages from outer space.

Half banana

You can lead JW's to Facts, but you cannot make them think !

Too true Phizzy.

Just a thought as a corollary to your excellent post Doug. You show how prophetic disappointment is no barrier to the continuation of the cult. I love your case of Thomas Beverly who promised the world to end in 1697 and afterward claimed it had ended... An interesting and blunt strategy to cope with the cognitive dissonance.

I think the adventist (small ‘a’) hopes become irrationally fixated in the individual and the trade-off is the sense of enjoying a religious certainty in an unpredictable life. Forget common sense... Glory Allelluia!

The same total denial of failure as with Beverly, was the Watchtower’s foundational statement by CT Russell in 1879 in defence of the failure of the Adventist (big A) expectation of 1874. It did happen after all, he said ...but invisibly! (Pull the other leg.)

These are the very pathetic and insubstantial foundations on which the Watchtower corporate edifice was built.

I would like to highlight a reason why the believers might remain in view of the dissonance caused by failure: I would say it is “group loyalty”.

Cult leadership recognizes from experience that the individual human psyche is strongly motivated to fulfill its social obligations to its chosen group. What the JW org offers even though it rarely if ever spells it out, is not just the fantasy hope of paradise but a ”personal identity,” a meaningful sense of self within a religious community. You support the group and they support you. Loyalty and group identity.

For the believer, group loyalty means believing that you have a role to play, you are not a drifting non-entity... you can become a respected member with lots of like minded buddies. This can even compensate for the lack of love you may have experienced in an abusive family, the believer gets a new bunch of brothers and sisters and even new and rather strict parents in the shape of the governing body telling you what to do.

This reward of identity counts more than the truthfulness or error which its leaderships claims because the unthinking pride of group loyalty. Because it is based on the psychological model of ”family,” it transcends all other considerations. So the periodic shock of prophetic failure by the JW org is buffered and mitigated by the more important sense of blind attachment to the social group. “We can ride it out together” is the logic defying spirit.

Of course if reason or research or even a recognition of self-worth were to enter the picture; former loyalties might evaporate.

20

Had a operation today and was asked about blood transfusions.

by atomant in

operation was successful only minor but some interesting information was revealed to me from the surgeon.l requested that they treat me as if l was a jehovahs witness with regards to blood transfusions.the doctor said well that varies from jw to jw and l asked what do you mean?his response was that in his dealings with jw's was that approx half of witnesses will accept a blood transfusion in life threatening circumstances and sign a form saying so.l was blown away when he told me this.l was curious if others in here have heard similar storys.lt seems to me that many witnesses have weakened their stance on this controversial subject.

Half banana

A close friend of mine who is a JW in name only, accepted a blood transfusion at night with the agreement of the doctors who knew that to be seen to be having a transfusion would cause trouble.

It seems that the doctors are fully aware, as my friend told me, that a majority of JWs will take a transfusion if life is at stake.

This tends toward the position that the JW religion is one of appearances and posturing...inside it is hollow.

..............How long will it be before the GB make a note of the unfaithful blood users in the ranks?

What a pointless and dangerous cult it is.

4

Intro final

by hillfy333 in

intro final.

my journey from being a born in witness to an agnostic was now complete.

in my humble opinion, based on research done by ehrman and others, it left me feeling satisfied with the thought that belief in the unerring word of god was founded on shaky ground.

Half banana

I know how you feel Hillfy. To be a JW is to lead a reckless life without thought of the future.The real beneficiaries of the cult are the leaders, everyone else suffers...it's so delusional.

At the bottom of Christianity is the Bible. If only people realized how they have been seduced into thinking this book is sacred when all along it is just a collection of stories brought together under the umbrella of Roman Catholic authority and held up to the peasants as holy.

I would like to add that there is no such thing as an original Bible. It has been calculated that about 83% of its contents are borrowed from earlier literature, usually pagan or foreign courtly sources. It has little to do with the goat herders of Judah, more a compilation of wishful thinking on their behalf. Before printed literature any text could, and was continuously corrupted by writers with a political agenda.

And we based our lives on it!

If you are interested in the subject, a great little book to read is A Short history of Christianity by JM Robertson which approaches the subject not from a religious perspective but from the point of view of the contemporary society in the Roman Levant. It is a real eye opener.

But we can't choose our parents...

36

Like Father, Like Son

by cofty in

when faced with awkward questions about the morality of god many christians respond by distancing themselves from the old testament and focusing on "gentle jesus meek and mild" of the new testament.. for bible-believing christians this is intellectually dishonest.. according to christian dogma jesus was the god of abraham isaac and jacob.

the logos, the alpha and omega who is "the same yesterday, today, and forever.".

he claimed that "he that has seen me has seen the father" and that "i and the father are one".. in short, christians assert that jesus is almighty god from all eternity.. it therefore follows that jesus was the god who ordered the nation of israel to take slaves as inheritable possessions.

Half banana

Cofty your point about the identity of God and Jesus and their relationship is fundamental to Christian belief and yet as you point out it presents a striking ambiguity.

This fact is at the heart of Christian theology, for more than sixteen hundred years it has distracted the minds of honest people seeking truth but the father / son paradox presents us with the clear signature of something other than truth.

Only in myth can the irreconcilable be harmonized. Only in myth can contradictory, impossible or illogical tales be presented without an assault on the intellect.

I have been thinking about this for some time and conclude that the only answer is that the Biblical account is merely an extension and re-writing of older folk tales.

The oldest rustic wisdom comes from a vast repository of story-lines which gave the needed explanation for "the meaning of life" through the movements of the literal heavens as seen on a night with a clear sky. Humans always want an explanation.

Before writing was invented the description of the heavenly bodies served as the universal book and the tales of the heavenly gods were told again and again. They were drawn from the pattern of the constellations (formed only by the human imagination) and the daily rotation of the Earth and the annual movements of the Sun. Heavenly activity, it was thought, determined events on Earth in the form of natural effects of wind, storm, flood, drought, darkness, success or failure etc. Light and darkness were key indicators.

These tales transcend nation and continents and variants of them are to be found from Mexico to Siberia to India. The common factor being that the stellar objects are universal and the mnemonics for repeating their stories to the next generation became the foundations of universal religious belief.

This is a large subject deliberately hidden and condemned as pagan by fourth century Roman Christianity but to cut to the chase, the ambiguity of the father and son in the astronomical myth; is central to the solar myth element and is demonstrated at the spring equinox alias Easter.

The Solar hero “born in the Virgin” of astrology with oxen (Taurus) present, became the teacher and healer assembling his twelve helpers (zodiacal houses) as he travelled through them in the solar year. He was destined every year to be born on the shortest day and die a sacrificial death at Easter whereby he would as the Solar God return to his heavenly father who was also a Solar God. The two ruling together each year in heaven was explained by the increased strength of the sunlight in the northern hemisphere at this time of year.

Incidentally it was only from about 390 BCE that it was understood that the sun at Easter appeared to cross over or “passover” from the southern dominance to the northern. In technical speech the plane of the ecliptic i.e. the natural plane at which the centre of the Earth travels around the sun crosses over the line of the equator, making equal day and night time...which is the meaning of "equinox" and happens twice each year in spring and autumn. (It is necessary to have a clear mental image of why the seasons arise to grasp this.)

As the armillary sphere demonstrates this “pass over” forms a "cross" where the two lines converge (the plane of the ecliptic and the equator) and this saltire shape or St Andrews cross became the symbol on which the Saviour Mithra stood. So being sacrificed at the spring equinox on a cross was the mnemonic or symbol for the solar event. By this central belief we can connect the Jewish Passover with the Mithraic cross and all the solar- Gods such as Jesus, Dionysus, Attis, Osiris and Horus et al.

No self respecting saviour figure would be seen without his cross at Easter!

The confounding and persistent detail of the myth is that father of the sacrificed Solar God was himself a Sun God.

52

Is the WT’s Paradise Earth doctrine a delusion?

by deegee in

the wt’s teaching that humans will live forever on a paradise earth will necessitate that given that there will be no more death, then immortal humans will have to be relocated to other planets in order to prevent the earth from becoming overpopulated.. so how many habitable, earth-like planets are there?more and more habitable, earth-like planets would have to become available on a continuous, never-ending basis ad infinitum as mankind’s population grows given that there will be no more death.. the longevity/sustainability of life on these planets will be limited by the fact that the sun serving these planets will eventually die:https://shar.es/1cko6n.

http://www.space.com/22437-main-sequence-stars.html#sthash.ejbt1xrz.dpuf.

so immortal humans will have to keep moving from planet to planet.

Half banana

I agree with you Finky baby.

Jook, I remember reading in the dreaded Awake magazine back in the early 80's that it was thought that approximately one third of people who had ever lived were alive at the present. This typical Awake factoid fed into the idea that a resurrection would not overburden the Earth.

Recent more researched statistics as I understand, puts the total number of Homo sapiens lives ever lived at around 105 billion i.e. about twelve or thirteen times times the present population.

As you say, who can really know but this was a serious statistical attempt.

The more bizarre aspect is to talk blandly about a resurrection of billions of people when not one person ever in all of human history has literally been resurrected.

Let alone having a refugee crisis of astronomical proportions...

Waring a sane non-religious hat...To imagine billions coming back to life is absolutely and unconditionally preposterous!

52

Is the WT’s Paradise Earth doctrine a delusion?

by deegee in

the wt’s teaching that humans will live forever on a paradise earth will necessitate that given that there will be no more death, then immortal humans will have to be relocated to other planets in order to prevent the earth from becoming overpopulated.. so how many habitable, earth-like planets are there?more and more habitable, earth-like planets would have to become available on a continuous, never-ending basis ad infinitum as mankind’s population grows given that there will be no more death.. the longevity/sustainability of life on these planets will be limited by the fact that the sun serving these planets will eventually die:https://shar.es/1cko6n.

http://www.space.com/22437-main-sequence-stars.html#sthash.ejbt1xrz.dpuf.

so immortal humans will have to keep moving from planet to planet.

Half banana

Yes, the WT paradise is a childish delusion.

18

Partaking of emblems

by sloppyjoe2 in

jw
friends

this year will be my first for by going to the memorial.

i will get asked by my parents how i can deny jesus even if i don't believe the end is close.

my thoughts on this are as follows, bear in mind saying it's all make believe is not an option.. i think that jesus intended for everyone to eat the bread and drink the wine.

Half banana

Just to ease your conscience, the Last Supper was a pagan rite borrowed in striking detail from the cult of Mithras. Unlike the Catholic interpretation, the Mithraic ritual was celebrated just once a year at the spring equinox just like JWs do.

23

Faith and Lies.

by sparrowdown in

if you were hooked up to a polygraph machine when you were still an asleep, kool-aid drinking dub and asked if you agree 100% with every single wt teaching (asked as individual questions and collectively), would you have "passed" with no signs of deception?.

i know, i definitely would not have "passed" such an interegation.

i would have tripped up on questions about blood, dfing and non jws being marked for destruction just to name a few.

Half banana

I wore a beard, didn't ever believe in 1914 and neither did I think the Devil was real.

Then I thought later, well if there is no Devil, where is the evidence for God? This was my turning point in escaping from the Borg mentality.

17

Hi your df but your invited to the memorial but we will not welcome you or talk to you .

by poopie in

jw
friends

but your welcome to come as guest we just will not talk to you stupid idiot

Half banana

Ritual humiliation=slavish dependancy

13

The argument over wood petrification and the pertification of animal dung?

by Crazyguy in

there's two sides to the explanation of petrified wood not sure yet about what creationists say about petrified dung.

on one side evelutionists say it's a long process the creationists say it happen rapidly caused by noah's flood and after.

has anyone really looked into this argument to see if there a decisive way to show the bible believers wrong.

Half banana

Just a qualifying comment Crazyguy. For fecal matter to remain identifiable does not require fossilisation.

The location within the living site under investigation, i.e. in pits away from the dwellings, the texture and colour of the material and most usefully the contents microscopically examined including bugs which feed on dung, human parasites, undigestable wheat chaff, pips from fruit etc, all can identify human (or other animal) excreta which may be many thousands of years old and too young to be fossil coprolites. These latter tend to be individual specimens, the former tend to be found in voluminous and amorphous deposits.

Archaeology is such good clean fun!